EY’s People Advisory Services: Diving Into a Critical Service Line

TBR Talks: Decoding Strategies and Ecosystems of the Globe's Top Tech Firms

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In this episode, titled “EY’s People Advisory Services: Diving Into a Critical Service Line,” Senior Analyst Kelly Lesiczka and Principal Analyst Boz Hristov share insights into EY’s People Advisory Services after their meeting with senior leadership and partners during a recent showcase of the service line.

Additionally, Kelly, Boz and “TBR Talks” host Patrick Heffernan discuss how EY manages the critical aspect of people advisory in digital transformation within its partner model, how enterprise needs have changed post-pandemic, and how people advisory engagements fit within EY’s larger framework of services offerings.

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Edited by Haley Demers

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Art by Amanda Hamilton Sy

EY’s People Advisory Services: Diving Into a Critical Service Line

TBR Talks Host Patrick Heffernan: Welcome to TBR Talks: Decoding Strategies and Ecosystems of the Globe’s Top Tech Firms, where we talk business model disruption in the broad technology ecosystem, from management consultancies to systems integrators, hyperscalers to independent software vendors, telecom operators to network and infrastructure vendors, and chip manufacturers to value added resellers. We’ll be answering some of the key intelligence questions we’ve heard from executives and business unit leaders among the leading professional IT services and telecom vendors.

I’m Patrick Heffernan, Principal Analyst, and today we’ll be talking about Big Four firm EY’s People Advisory Services, with Boz Hristov, Principal Analyst for TBR’s Digital Transformation practice and Kelly Lesiczka, Senior Analyst for TBR’s Professional Services practice.

EY’s People Advisory Services updates

So, this week on the podcast, we’re doing something a little bit different. I’m joined by Kelly Lesiczka and Boz Hristov who recently spent some time with EY’s People Advisory Services practice. The firm was doing a little bit of a roadshow in Boston and so they went down and sat down with them for a briefing. Normally we would take this and we would turn it into a special report. We’d put it out there for everybody to read. We thought this time because we have this podcast, we’d turn into an episode and we just chat about it. We often say that we know more than we put on paper, so maybe that more that we know is going to come out in this episode. So, Kelly, I’ll ask you first, maybe just describe what exactly it was and what you sat through and what you did with EY.

Kelly Lesiczka, TBR Senior Analyst: Yeah. So, we got to meet up with a few other leaders from Chicago, and they were from not too far from us, which is great, but they were able to talk to us about some updates within their People Advisory Services. So, a lot of talk about their CHRO study, which had just come out so it was interesting to see the impact of how technology is influencing the role of HR and how it’s changing more into experience driven, it’s also more up to a change to say, like they used the terminology “change is a muscle” which I think is a good way to phrase it. It has an ongoing change they need to keep updating. And so it was good to hear some of the changes that are happening from that perspective and how companies are looking at the value of people and how to best use their, really, their best asset through technology or even through different platforms and how to align them better with their business, how their business is moving and what new needs they have.

Patrick: And we’ve spoken in the past quite a bit with EY’s People Advisory Services practice. So, is there anything that struck you as surprisingly new this time or was it sort of the steady evolution of EY’s People Advisory Services practice? That’s a really loaded question early on, but I’ll go ahead and ask.

Kelly: Yeah. No, I like it, though. I think a big piece of it is definitely the experience driven, I think you probably agree, I think that was more of- it came through a bit more I think than we’ve seen in the past from People Advisory. I think overall in the market, it kind of fell off for a little while. But I think people are starting to see the value in people, especially equipping them with different pieces of technology. Look at how agentic AI is taking off, really teaching their people how to use those tools is really a strong- there was another thing I wanted to say-

Patrick: Yeah. No, well we’ll come back to agentic AI. Boz, your sort of initial reaction to this session with EY.

Bozhidar Hristov, TBR Principal Analyst: Yeah. We saw, at least we heard I should say, and we saw some of the examples that they shared with us, what EY aspires to be as a firm. There was some very strong examples of that. What I mean by that is we know Big Four, they always struggle with the fragmentation of the member firm structure, but the People Advisory Services since they started making that pivot towards being a lot more globally organized as a practice, and so, they had- they shared with us that they had 33 separate systems and approaches and frameworks you want to call it across the various member firms across the globe when it comes to people advisory. Now it’s down to one.

Patrick: Okay.

Boz: So, that’s a massive change because that first and foremost requires a massive internal buy in and consensus across the member firms. So, it’s, you know, it’s sometimes it’s harder, oftentimes it’s harder to sell internally within those firms than externally, right. So, making that recognition that they need to, you know, acknowledge the standardization and consistency across the member firms is a very, very first prerequisite I would say for the firm to think about going to market because as we know, change management is hard. So, applying change management to themselves, so, thinking about through that lens is an important factor. Also, it’s, you know, how they’re doing it as well along the way. I mean, they brought up, they are re-skilling over 2000 consultants, you know, as a part of that, and that re-skilling is mandatory. So, they’re not just putting on paper saying, we have one methodology now. They actually have people putting people to work and understanding and providing the training necessary to understand how, you know, that new framework is set up and what it all means and all the tools that are available to them along the way. Especially as change management, People Advisory Services is no longer a standalone kind of an offering source, meaning those consultants that usually and typically attach with a technology consultant or operations consultant, whoever it might be, in a larger transformation project, right? So, this is a key element that recognizes from the get go that regardless, there will be a change management, depending- the skill may vary obviously, but that’s a big first step and doing it consistently across, no matter if you are doing business with EY in the US versus, you know, the Netherlands or Australia, you are, you know, experiencing the same kind of methodology approach.

Patrick: So, people advisory services and change management, generally to your point, is typically part of a larger deal, part of a transformation, part of migration, whatever.

Boz: Yeah.

How People Advisory Services is positioned

Patrick: Did you get a sense at all that for the folks leading people advisory services at EY, that they see it eventually becoming something that would be the beginning of an engagement, not- it’s something that they could go out and sell and get new clients? Or is it always going to be part of why you should come work with us, is because we have this very robust People Advisory Services practice.

Boz: I will give the consulting answer but it depends you know.

Patrick: I walked into that so.

Boz: You walked into it, yes, you did. And I’m just thinking about that. To enforce that we’re part of that and being, you know, not just being a standalone leading with, always depends on how the company also takes the next step will be incentivizing and measuring success. What does measuring success look like, of a large transformation program? And everyone that is involved in that large transformation program gets measured the same way. Instead of saying, oh, the people advisory consultants are getting measured on ABC and then SAP consultants get measured on DEF, you know. So, if those incentives are aligned, the behavior will change and the approach will change and the approach will likely work along the way because you have the messaging, you have the framework, you’re going to market as a whole, as a firm. And you know, you’re not just trying to meet your own quota for the year, but you’re actually trying to drive towards the same outcome to make the client happy. So, that’s- I think we know from EY and from the other Big Four, there’s always been kind of that push to, as a, kind of a common KPI, so to speak, where service lines per client is kind of the common denominator. But we know from there, things start to water down a little bit and change depending on where you sit at the table, at what scale is your practice, and how things may, you know, vary and especially when it comes down to working across borders with member firms that may not be originating where the deal is structured from and shared services and sharing pools of profit and per partner and we’re kind of going down the rabbit hole here, but these are the challenges that could make a program that on paper looks really strong, actually very successful.

Patrick: Right. It’s been a 10-year conversation with EY about service lines per engagement and especially when they’re looking at globally, not just in individual countries. So, it sounds like that conversation is going to keep going.

Boz: I think so. I think so, but I think it’s because change management could serve, people advisory could serve as the, pun intended here, but as a catalyst of change, you know of the organization internally as well-

Patrick: Yup.

Boz: And applying a lot of those frameworks to themselves, which I believe they have started doing that already, could help them to identify. We know that they went through the Everest exercise.

Patrick: Right, yup.

Boz: And I’m sure, we know that they learned there’s some lessons learned, best practices, what works, what doesn’t along the way, but continue in that direction, in that spirit of like one EY, I think it’s gonna take some time, but it’s- they’re making the right steps.

Patrick: Yeah. And then, so Kelly, you brought up AI. What were some of the conversation- what was the conversation about how they’re applying either agentic AI or GenAI or just AI generally into this People Advisory Services now.

Kelly: I can’t say for how they’re doing it specifically for their people, but one of the things they called out was their avatar that they’re using called Meg internally to try to equip people with more knowledge and it talks to them and helps them teach. So, I think it helps recreate kind of an in-person learning even when you can’t necessarily have that. But I think that’s just one of the many ways that they’re trying to encourage the use of AI because you really do need to know how to use it to move forward

Patrick: Right.

Kelly: And go on in different ways. So, I think that was one of the things. Just- I want to just add one quick thing to what Boz was saying. I think one of the discussions we had with them was also around the shift from time and materials over to more value outcomes and how clients are really looking more for that. They want to actually see the value of the services that they’re getting and that could even be seen through AI if they’re able to use these tools and services, it’s something that they’ll be able to- I think it’s difficult to try to measure. There’s so much data out there. You could throw a dartboard at anything and you can use that.

Shifting pricing models

Patrick: Hmm.

Kelly: But I think the way that they’re shifting more into the value of what’s actually being produced and if they’re actually getting what they’re looking for, I think the risk on both sides of EY and the client is also growing through that too.

Patrick: That’s fascinating because the- for so long, change management has been the first thing cut, you know, when you sort are like we need to trim down this engagement, we need to, you know, the clients not going to pay this much. We need to cut something, let’s cut change management and what you’re saying is that if EY can get good at selling change management as a- on an outcome base rather than a time materials base that that might help propel their People Advisory Services practice.

Kelly: Yeah, I think, I think it definitely could. I think it showcases a lot of the value and I think the willingness on the client side to reap the benefit, it also shows that they actually want to execute on the change, because I think one of the main things they always say with transformation is how unsuccessful it is if you don’t have people on board.

Patrick: Right.

Kelly: And so to having skin in the game on both sides and actually the desire to transform just showcases the value of People Advisory Services for your organization in general.

The partner ecosystem and growth opportunities

Patrick: Right. So, all right, so Boz mentioned the internal- selling it internally, you’re talking about the relationship with the client, but then there’s that third relationship of the partner. So, did they speak to what it looks like for their partner ecosystem with respect to what they’re doing in People Advisory Services?

Boz: Yeah, I think that’s an opportunity for EY to grow even more when it comes to People Advisory and to take advantage of the framework that they have set up especially that as we talked a moment ago, People Advisory change management is becoming more and more part of the large transformation process. That’s where really the value is. And I recognize it from the beginning that there will be a change management point being at the forefront of the discussions. I think it’s critical. I mean they have a whole framework around being modular and scalable that the solutions that have developed, the technology solutions that have developed around the network experience, it’s really, you know, it’s a way to think about it that it’s not one-size-fits-all, right, way and that’s where it’s important to bring in the partners to not one-size-fits-all right. There’s a big transformation but depending on the persona, you can make better alignment, better adjustments. So, I think that’s an opportunity for them to have more partner discussions along the way, to understand the partner view and understand maybe there’s some, you know, new areas that you know the technology may or may not have recognized for development. Thinking about large SAP transformation programs or anything that’s, you know, with Salesforce or any of the other of their big partners, you know, Nvidia, or Dell or Microsoft, there’s so much potential there that they’re all part of big transformation problem, so, there’s, I think there’s room for growth when it comes to the partner dimension of EY.

Patrick: Yeah, and it’s a thing that they’ve gotten very good at sort of determining who their strategic partners are, who they’re going to play with.

Boz: Yeah.

Patrick: But that step of ensuring that those partners understand every single component of EY and like and how they can play in any one engagement.

Human resources opportunities

So, nobody listening to this can see it, but you’re both sitting here with notebooks that you’ve actually written on pen and paper, which is sort of the opposite of technology, but that’s okay. And I’m wondering if we could and I’ll give you a minute to sort of dig in, but is there a nugget or two out of your notebook that you sort of wrote down and you got, you know, like I know when I’m taking notes at an event, I’m always like underlining and putting little stars next to something. So, I’m curious if there’s anything out of those notebooks that sort of has got your attention now, Kelly, you want to go first?

Kelly: Yeah, I can go first, I think the main thing for me is that HR, the transformation is needed and the recognition within it is needed. I feel like it’s often a thing that people just think you can outsource, so it kind of gets tossed to the side. But I think the way that EY has approached it and they discussed in their study, it- there really is so much more to it and actually making sure that your talent base is aligned with what you actually need as a company and how you can move forward. And I think acknowledging that change without the organization updating your service lines or what type of client you’re pursuing, I think you also have to take a look at your talent and make sure that they’re aligned more closely with the tools that they need, so using AI internally, you’re using all these different optimization tools, but then also just if they’re aligned with the same priorities that the client is or as your company is, as it progresses with these new areas.

Patrick: Right.

Kelly: I think that was the main thing for me that underpinned by just ongoing change is just it’s perpetual really, you have to keep going.

Patrick: Right, and I think about we’ve talked about this before too, like the role of the Chief Human Resources officer in the last 5-6 years has been crazy because they had to deal with the pandemic and suddenly they had to organize everybody remotely and then coming out of the pandemic, we had the whole like, quite quitting stuff that was going on.

Boz: Yeah.

Patrick: We had lots of spin outs, lots of, you know, people going off on their own. Then we had all those firings that were happening across the technology space, sort of a blanket let’s just cut 10%. So, I imagine Chief Human Resource Officers have had a rough 5 or 6 years. So, getting all the help they can get from an EY, is- that’s a great.

Kelly: Yeah

Patrick: There’s a huge use case there.

EY’s approach and mindset

Boz, is there something in your notebook that is like screaming at you right now?

Boz: I’m looking at it and I’m just thinking to kind of build up, there’s a couple of things actually that I’m- I think they’re interconnected. There was a comment, one of the executives we spoke to brought up how change was a commodity, now it’s a value, right? And thinking through that, lens about going back to the discussion about applying it as a value driver as about understanding who’s your change agent within the organization and now how do you actually help your clients? That’s the mindset EY is coming from and that’s the mindset they’re bringing to their clients as well because, you know, not- just because you play golf with somebody, doesn’t mean that that’s the best person, you know, you wanna task with doing that change management work.

Patrick: Right.

Boz: And so, using the right tools, using the right approach, looking at it through that lens, it’s important. And to do that EY is taking two steps. Approach one is the mindset that what I have here is EY wants project architects. They don’t want salespeople. So, architecting it from that point of view, supporting that value creation is important, but also collaborating and tapping into EY’s wavespaces. Which we know it’s a huge asset for them, we know it’s a big part of their- how they go to market from an innovation standpoint and having that recognition that change management is a value, I think it’s how all of that discussion can occur and does occur at the wavespaces, and they’re not just there to showcase, but actually to demonstrate actually how it impacts organizations, because often those large transformation programs, you know, start at wavespaces, right, with discussions at wavespaces and then continue into the phases. So, kind of making that 90-degree shift in the mindset of EY’s approach both from the framework and the methodologies and the processes in place, but also how they approach the opportunities that change management can drive and tapping into the power of their most disciplinary model. I think it’s an important aspect.

Patrick: And we know from experience that the wavespaces can be used not only for the client to better understand everything that EY brings, but for EY itself to understand. So, if you’re a supply chain guy or an SAP guy, and you go to a wavespace and People Advisory Services shows up for the engagement, now you can more clearly articulate EY’s value

Boz: Absolutely.

Patrick: In the entirety of the engagement, not just in your little sort of piece of it.

Last takeaways: AI implications and global methodology

Any last takeaways from the event? Anything you’re going to look for like 5-6 months from now or a year from now when it comes to People Advisory Services or EY as a whole? Let’s throw it out there, or the Big Four as a whole. Let’s make it as broad as possible. What’s your big take away for the Big Four or EY or People Advisory Services?

Boz: Well, I think to me it’s, I would say the broader kind of professional services space including EY and the rest of the Big Four and diving back to the People Advisory and the change management is what’s happening with AI and agentic AI, and how those companies make the pivot and the shift to recognize, but also adjust, to the implications of their own operations and the business model with the big- couple of big factors. One is on the people side, right, on the human element inside of the pyramid being impacted potentially, but also on the commercial model, right? So, those are connected obviously. So, I think it will be curious to see how much of the learnings and the experience that People Advisory Services can do to the client, actually they apply to themselves because we often forget that those organizations that, like EY and others are professional services and most of their clients are in the B2B sector, right.

Patrick: Right.

Boz: Manufacturing, aerospace, retail, etc. So, there’s a little bit of a different nuance to bringing your, you know, kind of like, you know, advising your clients to yourself, because there’s a different goods and services that your clients offer than yourself. So that’s where it might be a little bit more of a challenge, but it’s an opportunity because if they can apply it to the professional services I think it might be much easier to then apply to more of a tangible kind of a B2B industry client sector.

Patrick: And in a minimum you’ve got experience at scale and that’s-

Boz: Yes, absolutely.

Patrick: What the clients are probably looking for.

Boz: Yeah, absolutely.

Patrick: So yeah, Kelly, how about you?

Kelly: I think for me, the biggest take away is around the theme of global and how they’re doing something so massive across organization, consolidating down to one main methodology. And I think the necessity to be more global is definitely coming through. I think other firms have tried to do it, but it can be very difficult to bridge together all of the different member firms and even across some of the professional services companies that are more heavily rooted in certain countries, it’s definitely difficult to create that global theme management tactic. I definitely think it’s a necessary thing, and I think it’s ever more present now, especially as companies overall, and this is something that EY had said, was that how they’re trying to be more proactive over reactive. And I think having that global mindset definitely enables you to be more proactive and you’re not just reacting because you’re so segmented. You have that one better view that shows more into what’s going on.

Final thoughts

Patrick: That’s perfect. And that’s exactly what we’re going to talk about in season 4 of this podcast is the Big Four firms and how global are they really, and what is it that- what are the advantages that- do they get from not being globally run and what are the advantages they’re trying to get to or the opportunities they’re trying to get to by becoming more consolidated globally, I think that’ll be our fall 2025 discussion. Does that sound good?

Boz: Excellent. Yeah, looking forward to it.

Kelly: Sounds good.

Patrick: All right. Thank you so much both of you for being here. And will we get a written report from this? Doesn’t matter we did this, we did this podcast, it was perfect. Thank you.

Boz: Thank you.

Kelly: Thank you.

Patrick: Next week in our Season 3 finale, I’ll be speaking with Darlene Wilson, a thought leader in the technology space about all things technology, including a look back and a look forward. Don’t forget to send us your key intelligence questions on business strategy, ecosystems and management consulting through the form in the show notes below. Visit tbri.com to learn how we help tech companies large and small answer these questions with the research, data and analysis my guests bring to this conversation every week.

Once again, I’m your host, Patrick Heffernan, Principal Analyst at TBR. Thanks for joining us and see you next week.

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